46: When Narcissism Comes to Church. Guest: Chuck DeGroat

Author, licensed therapist, spiritual director, and speaker Chuck DeGroat joins Amy Fritz on the Untangled Faith Podcast.

Chuck DeGroat is the author of the book When Narcissism Comes to Church which came out in 2020. The paperback edition releases soon making this a perfect time for a conversation with him on the podcast.

Amy and Chuck talk about all things narcissism including the many faces of narcissism in faith communities, what systemic narcissism looks like, and what to do when you hear reports that a leader you admire has hurt someone. How do you know what is true?

Time stamps:

[00:03:13] Amy’s experience on the launch team for Chuck’s book, When Narcissism Comes to Church.

[00:04:48] What is narcissism?

[00:06:53] Systemic narcissism

[00:11:58] Do our church systems attract narcissistic leaders?

[00:17:21] How does Chuck deal with resistance from pastors to seeing their own unhealth?

[00:18:40] Suggestions for those who want to build healthy faith communities

[00:24:50] Different ways narcissism presents itself.

[00:28:13] What if someone tells me they have had painful experiences with a pastor who is kind to me?

[00:31:40] Encouragement to leaders to be proactive in regard to their church culture health.

[00:37:05] False vulnerability and performative vulnerability.

00:43:26] In a complex situation, how do you differentiate between who is the victim and who is the abuser?


When Narcissism Comes to Church


Narcissism and the System it Breeds by Dr. Diane Langberg

Redeeming Power

A Church Called Tov

Something’s Not Right

This podcast is sponsored by Faithful Counseling. For more information and for 10% off your first month, visit Faithful Counseling here.

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This episode is made possible by the support of the Untangled Faith membership community. For more information and to access the bonus audio with Chuck DeGroat visit: Untangled Faith Podcast is creating a podcast. | Patreon

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Amy Fritz

Untangled Faith


Amy Fritz

Untangled Faith


Untangled Faith

Host/Creator: Amy Fritz

Producer: Michelle Pjanic

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Untangled Faith: 38: Misunderstood: Are We “Dogging” on the Church? Guests: Jenai Auman and Mary DeMuth on Apple Podcasts